full transcript of LGE-CSL debate (from LGE)

Press Statement By Penang Chief Minister Lim Guan Eng In Kuala Lumpur
On 23.2.2012.

Chua Soi Lek's Refusal To Release His Own Debate Transcript In Bahasa
Malaysia And English Will Only Expose Himself To Non-Chinese Speaking
Malaysians That He Focused On Making Personal Attacks,Lies And Adopted
Divisive Tactics
During The Historic Mandarin Debate On "Is The 2-party system becoming
a 2-race system"?

Selangor MCA's police report against me yesterday only highlights
MCA's desperation to cover up MCA President Chua Soi Lek's performance
of making personal attacks, lies and divisive tactics during the
historic Mandarin debate on 18.2.2012 "Is The 2-party system becoming
a 2-race system"? Making another 10 or 100 police reports against me
by Selangor MCA can not hide the fact that Chua has so far refused to
release his own debate transcripts in Bahasa Malaysia and English.

Chua Soi Lek's refusal to release his own debate transcript in Bahasa
Malaysia and English will only prove to non-Chinese speaking
Malaysians that he focused on making personal attacks, lies and
adopted divisive tactics during the historic Mandarin. Not only did
Chua made personal attacks against me during the historic debate on
18.2.2012, even his predecessor Datuk Seri Ong Tee Keat was also not

I had refused to trade personal insults or indulged in personal
attacks with Chua during the debate as I believed that a debate should
be a contest of ideas, ideals and principles. Chua knows releasing his
own debate transcripts will only expose himself as indulging in
baseless personal attacks against me as well as Ong Tee Keat. Worse
Chua will also be exposed for his divisive tactics and lies against
the record of PR.

MCA and Chua are using their control over the BN mass media to
whitewash Chua's personal attacks and twist the outcome of the debate
into lies. Even the Star was compelled to apologise to me in their
enthusiasm to whitewash Chua's performance. Facts and figures do not
lie. Let the debate transcripts speak for themselves.

In the interests of historical veracity, Chua should emulate what I
have done by releasing the debate transcripts in Bahasa Malaysia and
English for the benefit of non-Chinese speaking Malaysians. Yesterday
I have released my debate transcripts in Bahasa Malaysia. Today I
release my debate transcripts in English which clearly showed that
unlike Chua I did not launch any personal attacks against Chua's past or record.

Lim Guan Eng


Introduction, Lim Guan Eng:

First of all, I would like to thank the organisers for this live
televised debate. Televised debates mark a new chapter in Malaysian
political democracy because it is an important element in the
democratisation process. I hope that from today onwards, televised
debates will be a common phenomenon in the Malaysian democratic system
just like in Europe and the United States.

Thus, I believe what Malaysians really want to see is a debate between
Prime Minister Datuk Seri Najib Tun Razak and Opposition Leader Datuk
Seri Anwar Ibrahim, to see who really deserves to be Prime Minister.
Whoever isn't brave enough to debate, don't hope to think of becoming
Prime Minister.

Chua suggested that DAP is being used by PAS. If we observe UMNO
amongst the Malays, UMNO claims that PAS is being used by DAP.
Therefore, I believe this self-contradictory statement is a dirty
tactic employed by BN. I wish to stress here that Pakatan Rakyat
component parties, be it PAS, PKR or DAP, we never use each other. We
are only prepared to be "used" by the people! At the same time, we are
also not anti-Malay or even anti-non-Malay; we are merely against a
government that is riddled with corruption!

I feel that today's theme, "Is A Two-Party System Becoming a Two-Race
System?", is quite strange. Because, there already exists a two-race
system at the present moment, and we want to change it into a
two-party system. This two-race system, which is BN's long-held
ideology since Independence until now, has BN dividing the people into
Malays and non-Malays, this is a 'divide-and-rule' strategy. The
Deputy Prime Minister Tan Sri Muhyiddin Yassin had had said, "I am a
Malay first, then only a Malaysian." Is this 1Malaysia or is this
Bluff(Tipu) Malaysia? This is indeed a two-race system.

On the other hand, a two-party system is premised on ideology, ideals
and principles, without racial discrimination because we are all

In BN, UMNO only takes care of the Malays, MCA only takes care of the
Chinese, MIC only takes care of the Indians, Gerakan… I don't know
takes care of who???…. That's BN with their "you take care of your
race, I take care of my race". That is a two-race system! Conversely,
in a two-party system, we are all brothers and sisters, we
take care of each other; every Malaysian is part of one big family!

UMNO always proclaims "Malay Supremacy". Does the MCA not see this,
hear this or feel this, and thus are not brave enough to stand up to
them? Hence, we still hear that the Chinese are immigrants(pendatang)
and do not deserve equal rights.

PR is different from BN. We don't want "Malay Supremacy", what we want
is "Rakyat(People) Supremacy"! Anwar not only speaks about "Rakyat
Supremacy" in front of non-Malays, but he also says the same thing to
the Malays. Will UMNO leaders dare to stop proclaiming "Malay
Supremacy" and instead support "Rakyat Supremacy".

When the people or PR leaders expose abuse of power or corruption and
question the Police or the Malaysian Anti-Corruption Commission, we
are accused of challenging the Malay institutions – this is a two-race
system, because corruption does not discriminate against the colour of
one's skin. The late Ahmad Sarbaini, the customs officer who lost his
life, is he not a human being?

Pakatan Rakyat wants to abolish corruption, BN wants corruption. PR
wants to ensure leaders who are honest and a government that is clean,
including public declaration of assets of government leaders, open
tenders, now this is a two-party system! Most importantly, the real
corrupt officers must be caught, and not slandering the poor innocent
Teoh Beng Hock.

My opponent always says: "Other races become government, Chinese
become opposition". This is totally wrong. In truth, "BN MCA becomes
opposition, PR DAP becomes government" is what worries MCA. Not only
does the Chinese support PR to bring change, the Malays do so as well,
if not PR would not have been able to gain 40% Malay support and the
political tsunami would not have happened. Without the political
tsunami I believe I would not have the opportunity to stand here as
the Chief Minister of Penang and Chua would not have the chance to
become the President of the MCA.

In a democratic system, a two-party system requires alternating
governments. Let the BN fall and become the opposition, let PR rise to
become the government. If PR does not rule well, then the people have
the right to change again after five years. This is a two-party
system, with alternating parties ruling, only then will the people
have a better life.

Question from the moderator:

The Chinese community have welcomed a two-party system since 1980. If
we refer to the 2008 results, the amount of votes given to BN and PR
are about the same. This shows that half the people are happy with BN
while the other half harbour hopes for PR. Does this mean that both
parties have achieved a two-party system? How would your party seek to
win the other half?

Answer from LGE:

If PR is given the chance to rule, our policy will bring benefits to
the people. Today, inflation is rising, our income is not enough to
make ends meet. We want to reduce the people's burden. If we become
government, we will abolish the North-South Expressway and the Penang
Bridge tolls. We will also increase oil royalties from 5% to 20% for
Sabah and Sarawak.

I know, since Penang gave RM100 to senior citizens every year, BN has
copied. Not only BN has copied, MCA too has copied. So, besides
thanking Chua, they(MCA members) should also thank the Penang State
Government. If we take power at the federal level, we wish to inform
all 2.1 million senior citizens in the country that we promise to give
RM1,000 every year. These are the benefits of alternating governments.
They are judged on their policies. We want to become a policy state
not a police state.

Answers for the Q&A session:

LGE: Was that Perak Exco Ma Han Soon? I think we all know that when PR
was the government in Perak, it was PR which started the initiative to
grant land to schools and permanent land titles to new village
residents and the poor. However, since BN became government, this has
been abolished. Because of that, I feel that you have no right to
question anyone.

On the question of the Penang State Government making empty promises,
I wish to stress that we have fulfilled all our election promises. On
why the Sungai Nyior toll has not been abolished, we must remember
that this is under the power of the Federal Government. We have not
taken over the Federal Government, so be patient…. When we have
taken over the Federal Government, of course we will abolish it, as
well as the North-South Expressway and the Penang Bridge tolls.
However, even though we have not abolished the Sungai Nyior toll, we
have built a road to bypass the toll plaza, so it is the same, no need
to pay toll.

The success of Penang, I believe has been proven. After March 2008,
everyone can see, touch and feel the changes that have happened. In
Peninsular Malaysia, the first dual lingual road signs in Chinese were
erected in Penang. The first Tamil road signs in Malaysia are also in
Penang. For the first time in Penang, we also have road signs in
Arabic, all due to the success of the PR Government. Penang's success
in combating corruption is also notable, resulting in praise from
Transparency International. If there are people who are guilty, we
will not let them get off scot-free, and the fact the Penang has zero
corruption has been recognised by an international organisation. When
we say we don't take money, we don't take money. Thank you.

Questions to each other:

CSL: We hear populist policies, giving RM100, abolish this, abolish
that… Can you, on this stage, tell us what is the community
development and economic model of Pakatan Rakyat so that Malaysia can
escape the low-income trap and achieve high income status, including
implementing the promises in the Buku Jingga?

LGE: I believe this is the difference between myself and Chua. He is
not anxiously concerned about corruption, while I am very anxiously
concerned about corruption. We need to have a framework for
administrating the country's affairs. What is the plan to bring
economic development? I wish to use the Penang model as an example.

This is the result of the Penang Pakatan Rakyat State Government's
practice of "money makes money". This system stresses four key
aspects. First, "money raise money" through cooperation between the
private and public sectors (Public Private Partnerships) in executing
development projects. Secondly is "money earns money" through an open
tender system, the State Government can cut costs. Third is "money
creates money" through innovation and creativity. Finally, "money
saves money". If we don't take money, for sure there will always be
money to be saved.

Therefore, the Penang State Government has enjoyed a budget surplus
every year for four years, and is able to give back to the people
through our Senior Citizens Programme with RM 100 every year, and
RM1,000 one-off to beneficiaries of senior citizens who pass away.
Even newborn babies get RM200 under our Golden Child Programme. When
Barisan Nasional was ruling Penang, not a single sen was given, but
with the principle of "money makes money", we have given benefits to
the people of Penang, and this is actually an anti-corruption

In addition to that, in Malaysia, I believe that if we abolish
corruption, we will be able to save a lot of money and give back to
the people. This is our promise, Penang is the best proof! If we dare
to fight corruption, we will definitely have money. Thank you.

Answers to the Q&A and Conclusion, LGE:

First of all, I would like to rebut certain accusations that the
Penang State Government has not given land to Chinese schools. I feel
this is not only lying to yourself but also lying to others. This is
because we have proof, even the schools can verify that the Pakatan
Rakyat Government has given land. Don't forget, the Pakatan Rakyat
State Government has now institutionalised allocations to all school
streams, not just Chinese schools, also Tamil schools, Sekolah Agama
Rakyat or religious schools and private Chinese schools. Before, there
was nothing, and now they receive yearly allocations.

Here, I would like to make a plea to all Malaysians. Be brave enough
to change, we must not surrender our destiny to fate. We deserve equal
opportunities. No longer must we kneel down and beg. We must boldly
rise up with dignity to seek change! We do not want to be lied to
anymore, change now! Look, the MCA President too has changed, for the
first time he is debating with the Rocket. But this debate is not as
important as whether MCA dares to say "No" to UMNO?

Why say "No" to UMNO? Because UMNO uses racial and religious
sentiments, including supporting PERKASA to inflame and divide the
people! Secondly, UMNO abuses laws that impinge upon human rights.
UMNO condones corruption, Shahrizat's case with the cows is only the
tip of the iceberg. Even more serious, in the last 10 years, RM1
trillion of illicit funds (corruption money) has been illegally taken
out of the country. How do we account for this? This is why we want a
two-party system.

As what the former MCA President Ong Tee Keat described MCA's
cooperation with UMNO. He said, "Before at least MCA could eat the
leftovers dishes on the table, but now the best they can hope for are
the breadcrumbs."

Many Malays have not enjoyed the fruits of development of this
country. They don't get RM250 million to raise cows, because most of
the "good fruits" have been eaten by BN cronies leaving to the people
only the "dead" fruits.

The problems faced by the Chinese community, I believe everyone knows
there are many problems. Besides the problem of the private school
certificates (UEC) not being recognised, Chinese schools do not get
enough allocation funds, teachers who are not proficient in Chinese
are sent to Chinese schools, there are also problems with temporary
teachers that have not been resolved. But issues of unequal access to
the economy and jobs, I believe are not only faced by the Chinese, but
also by other races. That is why we have to take this chance to work
together with the other races to bring about change.

What we stress now is about the future of our children. The future of
my generation has already been robbed by BN for 50 years, don't let
our children's future be robbed as well. Therefore, we are awaiting
the chance to change.

This morning before I came, I told my daughter that if given the
chance, I would like to be the voice of her generation. I hope to
provide policies that will enable you to live here and not to migrate.
We must give importance to talent. Remember, only by appreciating,
emphasising and choosing talent can the future of Malaysia be bright
and prosperous.

Look at South Korea, in 1970, their average per capita income was only
USD260 in 1970 Malaysia was better, we had USD380 then. However, South
Korea has now surpassed Malaysia. Now, our average income is USD7,760
while South Korea has reached USD20,000! Why has South Korea become a
high income nation while Malaysia has failed? The main factor is that
South Korea is a democratic country, practices a two-party system, has
an alternating change of government. Therefore, if we want to change,
if we want Malaysia to become a high income nation, we must be brave
to rise up for change, we must be brave to realise a two party system.
This path is not easy, but I wish to remind everyone, our cooperation
with PAS, PKR is based on a written manifesto. It has been announced
in public, PAS has their ideology, DAP has our ideology, but don't
forget, PAS has never caused the death of a single Chinese. Let us be
strong, will ourselves to change. Even though the path may be
difficult, but for the sake of our younger generation, we must
complete this journey of change!

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