herald, allah and the use of BM
read my post ‘mr pm, don’t break my rice bowl’ below first for context.
i mentioned something about the word ‘allah’. i notice a reader from malaysiakini had voiced out regarding the word ‘allah’.
Rita Camilleri: Malta, a tiny, strategically-placed island in the centre of the Medierranean Sea, boasts a history which has been indelibly touched by many cultures - Arab to its south and European to the north. Not surprisingly, the Maltese language derives from an Arabic base with many other ‘grafted’ influences, in particular Italian.
Many commonly used phrases incorporate words from Arabic and Italian roots, side by side (eg ‘a beautiful day’ is ‘giornata sabiha&rsquo
. The word for ‘God’ is unambiguously ‘Allah’, used in the Maltese/Catholic spoken and written form. To my knowledge, this has never posed a problem. Communities from both sides of the Mediterranean would be aware of the use of this word as for centuries people from the two worlds have interacted.
As an Australian of Maltese origin with a keen interest in Malaysia, I am somewhat surprised by the reported stance of the Malaysian authorities in objecting to the use of the word ‘Allah’ for ‘God’ in the Catholic newspaper Herald. That two distinct faiths, both belonging to the Abrahamic tradition, should refer to the one ‘God’ by the same term, is hardly cause for scandal.
indeed. the sleeping PM is indeed making himself (and the government) a laughing stock again! only malaysia will quibble over such matter. only malaysia is so arrogant to think allah belongs to them only.
then what about the use of bahasa malaysia (BM)? isn’t BM our national language? aren’t we encourage to use BM? then why shouldn’t the herald have a BM section? why so scared of a christian publication using BM?
i notice from bob’s blog that the bimonthly publication of the council of churches of malaysia had ceased publication too… well… because of the use of BM. as bob put it, apparently the use of BM is a threat to internal security.
yes… but only if we use it for christian publication (well maybe even buddhism and hinduism). oh gee, so it is not only the use of the word allah exclusively for muslim but also the use of our national language, BM? then why made it the national language?
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36 Responses to 'herald, allah and the use of BM'
Leave your mind jogging here. (Smileys are clickable)
on December 21st, 2007 at 2:10 pm
You could use the word “tuhan” instead.
on December 21st, 2007 at 2:13 pm
Allah, anyway, is a special noun in Malay. It is a simple noun in Arabic but not in Malay.
on December 21st, 2007 at 3:28 pm
Special noun in Malay. Hmmm…do you by any chance work in DBP for you to claim that? Cuz I don’t remember studying this in school. Are there other special nouns that you could share?
Thanks!
on December 21st, 2007 at 3:46 pm
maybe, you could read it yourself?
In Malay, it is “Kata Nama Khas” (proper noun) and “Kata Nama Am” (common noun).
For instance Amir is a Kata Nama Khas in Malay but in Arabic, it is could be both “Kata Nama Am” and “Kata Nama Khas”, depending on using simply because Amir is an Arabic word. Amir however is not a Malay word.
on December 21st, 2007 at 3:51 pm
Or, if you want example for other language, take English. Specifically, the word bush.
If a person surname is Bush, then regardless of language, it will be Bush.
But if you are referring to bush as in “grasses, trees, etc”, in Malay, you could call it belukar or something similar, not Bush.
The same goes with the word Allah. Allah is not a common noun in the Malay language. It is a proper noun.
on December 21st, 2007 at 3:55 pm
Anyway, why not use the word “tuhan” instead? It is an acceptable Malay word that could be both a common or proper noun.
More importantly, it is far less controversial.
on December 21st, 2007 at 9:34 pm
but Allah is the term used to refer to the Almighty in Arabic translation of the Bible for centuries! I don’t recall Arab Muslims making it a fuss like Malaysians here do.
on December 21st, 2007 at 10:53 pm
Was’nt Mo’s father called Abd. Allah many years b4 the former was born
M’sia is trying to be Pakistan in trying to be holier than holy. Look at the state that Pakistan has descended into. M’sia wants to follow?
on December 21st, 2007 at 11:24 pm
Malcolm,
Yes, Allah is an Arabic word and has been used to refer to God in Arabic. There is nothing wrong with that. But that is not the issue. We are not talking about the usage of the common noun allah in Arabic.
The issue is the proper noun Allah in Malay.
We’re talking about a proper Arabic noun imported into Malay. In Malay, Allah is a proper noun which refers to Muslim god. Allah is not a common noun in Malay unlike what you guys are using it is as.
Again, nobody is answering why the word “tuhan” is not considered (which could be a proper noun that could refer to all kinds of god, including that of Islam, and common noun depending on usage). Why?
witso,
Abdullah (not abd. allah) is not the word Allah. It is the same as how Kalimullah is not the word Allah despite the related cognate. Everybody knows it does not refer to god. There is no issue with it.
And it has nothing to do with Pakistan. And really, try not to resolve to insult.. Try not to agitate those that disagree with you… try to have a civilized discussion instead…
on December 22nd, 2007 at 1:18 am
Lilliput and Blefuscu became permanently in a state of conflict over the manner of eating a boiled eg - take a lesson from that!
Pakistan(meaning, “Land of the Pure), is an example of such an embroilment, clearly influenced much by religion. A civilized discussion is a Truthful one. A merely PC one needs not be so.
on December 22nd, 2007 at 2:25 am
A civilized discussion is the one that respect difference in opinion. It sticks to the issue rather than accusing others of something.
on December 22nd, 2007 at 2:40 am
dear all
for the meaning of the word allah, please see my latest post - a comment by ‘a muslim’ from other blogs.
on December 22nd, 2007 at 2:41 am
“Sticking to the issue” thing is often for the moderation of an enlightened world to decide, not just a participant in a Net discussion, who wants also to play the part of a moderator as well, in one. Limiting the necessary paradigm in the name of a so-called civilized discussion is as helpful as leg irons.
on December 22nd, 2007 at 2:58 am
If don’t want to discuss of the issue, fine. I won’t engage you.
on December 22nd, 2007 at 10:02 am
If the Malay Bible says `Allah`, and the arab christians too have used it for centuries (before Mohd.), I do no see what business this `Aloha` has to fight so hard for doing away with it.
It is something like forcing others to eat only `halal` stuff. This PC correctness is going too far.
Aloha`s assertions are an attempt to intimidate others. Perhaps he is one of the followers of the advisors to the PM who advocated mass circumcision of non-muslims as a ideal way to promoting `national unity and harmony`.
Basically, what Aloha is saying is `shut up only I am right`. That is very crude but not surprising.
on December 22nd, 2007 at 10:50 am
Khairy’s speech at the Umno general assembly last month, during which he blamed newspaper vendors for not wanting to work on Deepavali day. He made a pointed reference to the fact that the sector is predominated by Indian Malaysians.
(Each year, the print media takes a break during the major festivals. This year, Deepavali fell during the week of the Umno general assembly, and there was no publication on the day following the delivery of the presidential address.)
So to satisfy Aloha and his brethren, Indians should have changed the Deepavali date. This is plain idiocy from people from the Land Of ID with too much ego and the attendant narcissism that goes along with it.
on December 22nd, 2007 at 11:14 am
Amin, Observe how instead of explaining why the term “Allah” is needed, what you are interested in is merely throwing insult and making red hearing comparison with Pakistan and Khairy which has nothing to do with the usage of the word “Allah”
If sharing opinion that you find disagreeable is “intimidation”, whereas in fact, it is not me that is using harsh words, then good riddance. It’s obvious dialog is not what you guys seek. Goodbye.
on December 22nd, 2007 at 11:22 am
What nonsense you talk. Where did i mention Pakistan. If you cannot dialogue properly, then just stay away lah.
Khairy is very relevant to the whole scenario. Don`t try to cahnge the subject. You created the intimidation scenario. You fellows call it `sharing` but when someone disagrees you become agro.
By the way now I think I have a right to insult you politely- little bit only as this is not my blog:
Your observation is as shallow as your grey matter.
on December 22nd, 2007 at 11:26 am
First remove the crosses etc from missionary schools. Then buddhist statues are haram. Then Indian statues cannot be removed but must be destroyed when their temples are destroyed.
All this is a pattern, which the followers of Aloha adhere to.
on December 22nd, 2007 at 12:01 pm
It is a mark of the lowest form of intellect for a Malaysian political leader to pontificate that the word “Allah” is a monopoly of Muslims.
The perception of the monopoly on the Arabic word for “God” might be so in the parochial minds of Malaysian Muslims like the Deputy Internal Security Minister.
And,one might accept such idiocy from extreme right wing tunnel-visioned religious fundamentalist groups.
http://malaysianunplug.blogspot.com/2007/12/islam-ala-malaysia-we-cannot-let-other.html
on December 22nd, 2007 at 12:10 pm
just another UMNO ploy to get votes? have the UMNO goons run out of relevant issues? stuff like education are usually timeless.
i have to agree with aloha’s view that in malay, a language of far too many foreign words, Allah has been deemed a proper noun to refer to the Muslim god. Whereas tuhan (lower-case first letter) is the common noun for god. For the Christian God, it’s probably Tuhan? Depending on context too. If ‘god’ is used in the context of a particular abstract idea then it’s Tuhan again. To avoid confusion, we can perhaps write and say Tuhan Kristian/Yahudi?
on December 22nd, 2007 at 12:20 pm
A) From the Al-Quran
Qu’ran 1:1 - English translation]
“In the Name of God, the Compassionate, the Merciful.”
[Qur'ân 1:1 - Arabic transliteration]
“Bismi-Allahi ar-Rahmani, ar-Raheem”
[Qur'ân 1:1 - Arabic]
(B) From the Arab (Christian) Bible:
[Genesis 1:1 - English Bible - King James Version]
“In the beginning God created the Heaven and the Earth . . . ”
[Genesis 1:1 - Arabic transliteration]
“Fee al-badi’ khalaqa Allahu as-Samaawaat wa al-Ard . . . ”
[Genesis 1:1 - Arabic Bible]
on December 22nd, 2007 at 12:34 pm
it is so clear that the issue is simply a diversionary tactic by politicians to mask their true objectives , which is to fish for Malay votes. No more no less , but if it affects the publication license of a bona fide organisation then surely somebody shud engage the necessary legal response to fight this apparently injustice ( criminal activity i call it ) or we shall be stuck in this nionsensicl quaqmire !
Unless there is no longer any laws left in the country and the ruling party can do, say and act how they like , the rest go to hell !
on December 22nd, 2007 at 12:39 pm
hey tonixe,
i think u r not far off when u wrote “there is no longer any laws left in the country and the ruling party can do, say and act how they like , the rest go to hell”?
what more when zaki becomes chief justice? whoa….
on December 22nd, 2007 at 1:27 pm
Zaki is designated to be CJ no matter how jaki the well-informed people gets. This is the fairness of Badawi. His way of respecting your intelligence.
Never mind, I’m sure Wong Chun Wai will spin it like the most apt and greatest appointment yet. Needless to say, the same with Banana, NaSTy and all the Jln. Riong spews to come.
on December 22nd, 2007 at 1:36 pm
The need to appoint certain mediocre non ministers to be in charged of their respective religious affairs means that the whole matter actually is being pushed into an insignificant perspective, lttle worth the attention of the governance in its entirety. As if we can’t read between the lines.
This is another way of spinning matters to look like a good solution while the reverse is being propagated.
on December 22nd, 2007 at 2:18 pm
Jeff Dunham and his friend Achmed perform a very special rendition (get it?) of the time-honored Christmas classic, “Jingle Bombs.â€
Jeff Dunham - Achmed the dead terrorist - “Jingle bombs”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPG6mgcwp40&eurl=http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/
on December 23rd, 2007 at 12:09 am
Aloha:
The same goes with the word Allah. Allah is not a common noun in the Malay language. It is a proper noun.
Prove it. Show me which Bahasa Malaysia textbook tells me that Allah is a special noun. Or any publication by DBP. If you have any proof whatsoever, in written form or online form that states:
Allah: Digunakan untuk melambangkan tuhan Islam SAHAJA. (or anything to this effect)
Find this, and I shall apologize to you reservedly.
Else shove your sarcasm up your…erm, nvm.
on December 23rd, 2007 at 12:10 am
[...] views on the blogosphere: What in God’s name … (KTemoc Konsiders) herald, allah and the use of BM (Lucia Lai) THERE THEY GO AGAIN. (zorro-unmasked) Do not utter the lie, saying this is lawful and [...]
on December 23rd, 2007 at 1:24 am
aloha
you yourself mentioned ‘dialouge’. to have a dialouge doesn’t stop at explaining the word ‘allah’ only. we must go beyond that - like what was it that lead to the johari guy to think allah is exclusively for muslim only and so on. and that was what amin and wits0 were trying to do.
we should all agree to disagree amicably and should not be rude (resorting to calling people names) when people disagree with us. also, when we realised we are wrong, we should gracefully accept it.
from many of the blogs i visited, i notice most people disagree that the word allah does not belongs solely to the muslim. there are christians arabs, christian jews, christian lebanese and so on who had all along use the word ‘allah’ as their god. if you read malaysian unplug it was even mentioned that the arab christians had been using the word allah for 19 centuries!
on December 24th, 2007 at 7:10 am
According to Wikipedia, the name Allah “is best known in the West for its use by Muslims as a reference to God, it is used by arabic-speakers of all Abrahamic faiths, including Christians and Jews in reference to “God”.”
Furthermore,
“Arab Christians for example use terms AllÄh al-ab (الله الآب) meaning God the father, AllÄh al-ibn (الله الابن) mean God the son, and AllÄh al-ruh al ghodus (الله Ø§Ù„Ø±ÙˆØ Ø§Ù„Ù‚Ø¯Ø³) meaning God the Holy Spirit (See God in Christianity for the Christian concept of God).”
For Muslim context
from Catholic encyclopaedia:
“Let it be noted that although Allah is an Arabic term, it is used by all Moslems, whatever be their language, as the name of God.”
So clearly the name usage in Christian is applicable if only you speak Arabic( which is not in Malaysian context). In addition I dont recall any Christian publication in Liverpool UK use the word Allah in their leaflets.
Thank you.
on December 24th, 2007 at 11:24 am
Oh yeah happy holidays everyone…
http://www.islamtomorrow.com/yusuf.htm
on December 28th, 2007 at 5:19 pm
“from many of the blogs i visited, i notice most people disagree that the word allah does not belongs solely to the muslim. there are christians arabs, christian jews, christian lebanese and so on who had all along use the word ‘allah’ as their god. if you read malaysian unplug it was even mentioned that the arab christians had been using the word allah for 19 centuries!”
are you are talking about the Malay language or Arabic?
If you guys are so adamant on using Allah, why dont you use Allah in English Bible?
http://www.malaysiakini.com/letters/76410
on December 29th, 2007 at 2:05 am
certin
simple. because english has its name for allah - it is god or lord. they are english words.
that letter of fatima idrus from malaysiakini is a laugh because she mentioned with the use of allah, herald is proselytise to muslim. is the muslim’s faith that weak???
on December 29th, 2007 at 3:06 am
Hmm hai Aloha, let me explain why Catholics do not use the word Tuhan for the word God. Catholicism, similar to Islam, is very strict in their Bible and services protocol translations to other languages. In the Bible or in the mass (Catholic service), we have phrases like
“The Lord our God”
which in Malay is
“Tuhan Allah kita”
So in this context, Lord and God is not interchangable and has a slight disctinction. Besides, it’ll create further confusion to say
“Tuhan Tuhan kita”
Besides this translation work has been done for decades and has rooted in the Malay region for a very very long time, way before Malaysia was created and the Malaysian constitution saying that Malays are those who practices Malay culture and are Muslims. Back then there were many Malays who practices other religion and also other races who have Malay as their mother tongue. It is also way before DBP or some guy in the Internal Security Ministry decreeing that Allah is a term to be used as a proper noun and can only be used in a Muslim context.
Is it fair that some guy, without even checking the history and culture of the Catholic people in Malaysia (Sabah and Sarawak especially), suddenly banning the use of the word ‘Allah’ by Catholics, who have been using it for ages for religious purposes???
on December 29th, 2007 at 3:44 am
owh and if u really wanna be technical Aloha
The word ‘Allah’ used in the Malay bible is pronounced without the stressed Arabic “L”
We say it as though it’s ‘Alah’…
I do hope you have a strong faith with your religion that you won’t expect us to change the spelling to ‘Alah’ instead, will you?