proselytizing and evangelizing
UPDATED: my letter to malaysiakini ‘nobody can proselytize to you if you are strong’ sent this morning, appeared in malaysiakini this afternoon. what i wrote there more or less same as this post - minus of course the long-winded part about other christians trying to proselytize to me. click here to read the letter.
ORIGINAL POST
Proselytizing intrudes into the person’s spiritual life and pushes him to convert. Muslims in their own countries often proselytize Catholics, who are forced to renounce their faith or suffer severe consequences, even death. Many centuries ago too many misinformed Catholics proselytized Jews. Catholic teaching, based on free will, firmly rejects such activities.Evangelizing witnesses to the faith and allows the person to decide for himself whether to come forward. Jesus of Nazareth spoke to the people wherever they gathered to hear Him. Each individual was free to stay or go, believe or not, and be responsible to God alone for his decision. Jesus told us, Jn 20:21 “As the Father has sent Me, even so I send you.” Catholics are to evangelize as Jesus did, by gently inviting Jews to become interested in God’s glory through His Messiah.
taken from second exodus.
proselytize - to induce someone to convert to one’s own religious faith.
christians do not proselytize but evangelize. evangelize doesn’t mean going around with a bible in one hand and calling "convert if you want to be save" and preaching away like mad. well… ok maybe to some extremists christians they did that, but evangelizing, as it was defined "witness to the faith" is simply living our faith as an example in which itself will attract people. for example, i am in the society of st vincent de paul, a society where we help the less fortunate and needy people, regardless of race and religion. when we help them, they were grateful to us saying things like "the christian very good people because they help us a lot" - that is living our faith, that is evangelizing itself without us really realising it.
if anything, catholics is the denomination that is poorest at evangelizing (that’s why we usually get lecture from our priest!), and yet here, there are people who think we are trying to proselytize…. and worst… just by letting people read the word ‘allah’ in our catholic publication.
it’s true.. and a fact, catholics are not so passionate and good at evangelizing. it is the other denominations, especially jehovah witness that usually go all out to evangelize people. why, i myself, though a catholic, had been approached by other christians to convert to their denomination!
i remember when i was 13 years old in school, a school mate, who is from the protestant church, invited me to join their church house gathering after school, and i used to oblige and attended her church gathering once a week… and yet here i am still a catholic.
i remember about 20 years ago, when i was working in beach street, one of the most popular commercial area in penang, a couple of people from the jehovah witness church used to drop in my office and preached to me about accepting jesus if i want to be saved. though i told them i am a catholic and already accepted jesus, yet they were persistent preaching to me to lure me to their church. i listened, i gladly took their brochures to read… and yet i am still a catholic today.
the point is if your faith is strong, why are you so scared of people proselytizing or evangelizing to you? you listen, you read… but you’ll still remain rooted firmly to your own faith if you believe in your own faith strongly. if you listen and read, then get confused, this means your own faith is shaky.
remember the definition of proselytizing right in the beginning? it intrudes into one’s spiritual life and forces one to convert. tell me, if you happen to read a publication not of your faith, is that intruding into your life? and how does just you reading it, forces you to convert?
i always think that it is kind of silly that there is a law in our country that prohibits non muslim to proselytize to muslim. isn’t religion suppose to be a personal thing? why do we need a law then? isn’t this so telling of the government not trusting their own muslim brethrens? thank god there is no law that says no proselytizing to the christians… i would be very offended if there is! oh yeah, also of course this case of the banning of the word allah from the government is also very much ‘telling’!!
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14 Responses to 'proselytizing and evangelizing'
Leave your mind jogging here. (Smileys are clickable)
on January 9th, 2008 at 12:54 pm
Therefore all the nations instigated by envy and impiety rose up against us, and all the kings of the earth motivated by injustice and enmity applied themselves to persecute us. They wanted to thwart God, but He cannot be thwarted. Ever since the time of Revelation, every despot or slave that has attained to power, be he violent or ignoble, has made it his first aim and his final purpose to destroy our law, and to vitiate our religion, by means of the sword, by violence, or by brute force, such as Amalek, Sisera, Sennacherib, Nebuchadnezzar, Titus, Hadrian, may their bones be ground to dust, and others like them. This is one of the two classes which attempt to foil the Divine will.
The second class consists of the most intelligent and educated among the nations, such as the Syrians, Persians, and Greeks. These also endeavor to demolish our law and to vitiate it by means of arguments which they invent, and by means of controversies which they institute. They seek to render the Law ineffectual and to wipe out every trace thereof by means of their polemical writings, just as the despots plan to do it with the sword. But neither the one nor the other shall succeed. We possess the divine assurance given to Isaiah concerning any tyrant that will wish to undermine our Law and to annihilate it by weapons of war, that the Lord will demolish them so that they will have no effect. This is only a metaphorical way of saying that his efforts will be of no avail, and that he will not accomplish his purpose. In like manner whenever a disputant shall attempt to demonstrate the falsity of our Law, the Lord will shatter his arguments and prove them absurd untenable and ineffective. This divine promise is contained in the following verse, “No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn.” (Isaiah 54:17).
Although the exponents of both methods persuade themselves that this is a structure which can be demolished, and they exert themselves to undermine its firmly established foundations, they only increase their pain and toil. The structure remains as firmly planted as ever, while the God of Truth mocks and derides them, because they endeavor, with their feeble intelligence, to achieve a goal that is beyond the powers of mortal man. The inspired writer describes their attempt and God’s scorn of them in the following verses: “Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their words from us, He that sitteth in heaven laugheth, the Lord hath them in derision.” (Psalms 2:3-4). Both of these parties have harassed and afflicted us incessantly throughout the epoch of our political independence, and partly during the period of our dispersion.
- Maimonides (Epistle To Yemen)
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Epistle_to_Yemen/III
on January 9th, 2008 at 1:39 pm
If Pakistan is an Islamic country, what is your objection to imposing shari’ah as is being demanded by the mullahs? As a believer, why are you afraid of shari’ah law?” I asked a former editor of an Urdu daily and currently the host of a TV programme. His answer: “As an Indian, you obviously would like to see Pakistan go into the Stone Age”. I persisted: “Isn’t the ideal concept of state in Islam the city state established by the Prophet in which Islamic law was the basic law?” He replied: “That would mean going back into the stone age”. I pushed a little further and asked: “Are you willing to say this outside the confines of your office, and stand up in public for what you believe”. He looked horrified and said: “Do you think I am mad? I won’t be alive an hour after I say this in public”.
http://www.dailypioneer.com/indexn12.asp?main_variable=OPED&file_name=opd3%2Etxt&counter_img=3
on January 9th, 2008 at 6:12 pm
Over 60 percent of Americans now believe that the US should support Israel, up from a low point of 23% in 2003 and showing a rise of over 10% since the Second Lebanon War. Conversely, close to 50% have an unfavorable opinion of the Palestinians, following a trend that has increased in the past few months.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1198517328870&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
on January 9th, 2008 at 6:34 pm
Come to Bethlehem and See Who Persecutes the Christians
Wall Street Journal - USA
In dismissing the necessity of Israel’s security barrier to protect its citizens against attacks by Palestinian Muslim extremists, Kenneth L. Woodward ignores the pressures and ongoing intimidation facing Palestinian Christians by these same extremists (”The Plight of Bethlehem,” op-ed, Dec. 24).
While Christians in Bethlehem do suffer daily hardships, their situation is not the result of Israel’s desire for land. Rather, it is the fact that during the second Palestinian Intifada, Bethlehem served as a hotbed for Muslim extremists’ hateful anti-Israel philosophy and a breeding ground for terrorism. To defend its citizens, Israel built a security barrier that has saved …
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119888540385256565.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
on January 9th, 2008 at 8:58 pm
Lucia,
In reality, religion had been created by some people, and the people tend to treat it as some kind of ownership, and tried to convert others either by force (Proselytizing) or by convincing (evangelism).
However, both are nothing to do with God. God created human and the creator would have preferred that they will do what they are created using their organs and senses. The religious teaching are to assist and guide human on the aspects of morality and decency, and it was geared towards providing a common platform for social integration and to co-exist.
Unfortunately, religion are often used to divide human and to distinguish which ultimately caused disintegration, conflict and war.
God didn’t need human to pray or talk to Him, neither to obey Him. Human needs God to survive as a social grouping and to have a common platform leading to co-existence and harmony. But God was ultimately blamed for all human errors and greed.
on January 10th, 2008 at 2:15 am
kesava
why is it you like to post long write-up from other sites, and which are not really related to the topic here? this was not your first time but in comments of yours in my other posts, you did the same thing. i hope you don’t mind to stop posting from other sites. give us your personal comments instead.
sareen now now, why are you using multiple IDs, kesava? sareen is you! and i wouldn’t be surprise if kiran bhatia is you too (though the IP differ, but kesava’s and sareen’s IP are the same). please please kesava (and kiran bhatia), i appeal to you to stop using multiple IDs and stop posting from other sites. if you really want to point out those articles from other sites, just give the url will do. it would be better if you come in with your own personal comments RELATED to the post/topic and then only you give the url of other sites (not the articles).
i hope you would listen to this humble advise of mine and try to cooperate with me. thank you.
mave
yep. people said religion is man-made and because of religion, there’s so much conflict in the world… see, guess this is the main reason why people choose to be atheist.
to all btw apart from my letter in malaysiakini, i would like to recommend another excellent letter that touch on evangelising: everyone should be allowed to explore all religions
2 other letters related to the allah issue are:
http://www.malaysiakini.com=“” http:=”" href-=”" href=”http://www.malaysiakini.com/letters/76860″ target=”_blank” rel=”nofollow”>religious divide: who benefit?
allah term not to confuse or propagate
on January 10th, 2008 at 7:41 am
why is it you like to post long write-up from other sites, and which are not really related to the topic here? this was not your first time but in comments of yours in my other posts, you did the same thing. i hope you don’t mind to stop posting from other sites. give us your personal comments instead.-lucia
Thank you. I think I prefer not to waste my time here if you cannot understand. Bye.
on January 10th, 2008 at 7:43 am
why is it you like to post long write-up from other sites, and which are not really related to the topic here? this was not your first time but in comments of yours in my other posts, you did the same thing. i hope you don’t mind to stop posting from other sites. give us your personal comments instead.-lucia
Thank you. I think I also prefer not to waste my time here if you cannot understand. Goodbye and all the best to you.
on January 11th, 2008 at 9:11 am
I guess Kiran Bhatia and Kesava may have been the same person since the responses were 2 mins apart and IPs probably logged at same.
I too, was trying to understand his/her point but sadly, I failed.
on January 11th, 2008 at 1:36 pm
Luce, I had this posted at my place http://ktemoc.blogspot.com/2008/01/has-ong-kt-mahathir-ised-dr-ling.html -
“Everywhere times are a changing:
Over 60 percent of Americans now believe that the US should support Israel, up from a low point of 23% in 2003 and showing a rise of over 10% since the Second Lebanon War. Conversely, close to 50% have an unfavorable opinion of the Palestinians, following a trend that has increased in the past few months.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1198517328870&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull“
as can be seen, same as what “Kiran Bhatia” or Kesava posted above. I replied ;-)
“wonderful - something “reliable” (hahaha) from the Jerusalem Post ;-) hahahahahahhaaaa - ultra Zionist and rabid Arab hater Daniel Pipes writes for JP regularly as a columnist.
Wiki tells us that “Pipes is also the founder of Campus Watch, an organization and website which exposes and publicizes what it claims is anti-Israel bias on campus. Pipes and the organization were criticised in 2002 of attacking academic freedom by publishing a list of academics critical of Israel and US foreign policy” - just like what the Nazis taught their Hitler Youth to do, to dob in even their parents.
And the author of the article Calev Ben-David is a member of The Israel Project (TIP). This is what the International Relation Centre has to say of TIP:
“The Israel Project (TIP) is a Washington- and Jerusalem-based lobbying outfit that aims to provide journalists and the public with information about Israel and the Middle East with the goal of giving a “more positive public face” to the country. Claiming to be a “nonprofit, nonpartisan organization impacting world opinion to help achieve security and peace for Israel,” the group advocates a number of positions similar to other hardline and neoconservative pro-Israel groups. It supports the controversial wall along the West Bank, advocates a hardline against Iran, and actively promotes the work of hawkish think tanks and writers.”
hahahahhahahahahaaaaa - it’s just like reading Harakah to hear that PAS and syriah law is good for Malaysia hahahhahaaaa”
The bloke by now annoyed came back with:
“A long drawn out `hahahahhahahahahaaaaa` is that of a guffawing fool.
You as a jew hater write regularly too don`t you in love with muslim spirations (as you put it). And now you are anti PAS and anti syariah.
Haha. No convictions of your own then huh? where the water face man?”
I then advised him:
“;-) you’re a sore loser in a post-comment ‘debate’. Another thing, you don’t know me well enough nor have read my blog long enough to know where I stand politically, yet you seem to be rather reckless assigning multi-faceted ‘affiliations’ to me, such as “Jew hater”, “in love with Muslim aspirations”, “anti PAS”, “anti Syriah”.
You must learn not to see the world in black and white like what a fundamentalist (of whatever religion) does, but if you have to, at least be consistent, not shotgunning your accusations from “Jew hater” to the other end of the spectrum “anti PAS”.
There is in fact a creature such as an independent blogger - I admit there’s not many of this category of bloggers but I am one of the few - see, you’re privileged to ‘discuss’ matters with a rara avis hahahahahahahahahaahahaaaaaa”
;-)
on January 12th, 2008 at 3:05 am
kesava and kiran bhatia (same person)
well it’s you who don’t understand what i asked of you. i never ask you to leave or stop commenting but if you want to go on your own account, be my guest.
on January 12th, 2008 at 9:33 am
“kesava and kiran bhatia (same person)”
There is also a possibility that both shares the same PC - as in an office, e,g.
on January 14th, 2008 at 1:04 am
wits
aiya i am very well aware of that lah… but as thrashed pointed out both of them posted just 2 mins apart so there is a high possibility they are same persons. also, in some other posts comments, both posted about the same time. if both share same PC, i wouldn’t believe one uses it one minute, and 2 mins later, another will use it. you can tell from the way a person writes, with its same style/technique whether s/he is same person.
on January 16th, 2008 at 10:36 am
[...] again, Malaysians are polarized over religion. Some other religious intolerance news can be found here and [...]