keamanan dekat gereja diancam
Post on Nov.19, 2006
the following is a translation of the post ‘smses brings chaos‘ CnP from the herald of 12 nov. issue. this is also from the herald. the bahasa, mandarin and tamil translation appeared in the 19 nov. issue.
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IPOH: Khabar angin yang tersebar melalui khidmat pesanan ringkas (SMS) telah mengancam keamanan, keharmonian dan kebebasan kepercayaan umat Katolik dari Ipoh.Misa dalam bahasa Tamil yang bermula pada pukul 7 pagi pada hari Ahad, November 5, 2006 berjalan seperti biasa, tetapi pada pukul 7.30 pagi, Fr Dominic Santhiyagu dikejutkan dengan kehadiran polis dan kenderaan polis diluar Gereja, iaitu di jalan utama. Diluar, terdengar bunyi suara orang ramai dan Pasukan Simpanan Persekutuan (FRU), lori-lori sampai dan diletakkan di sepanjang jalan utama di hadapan Gereja.
Tidak lama selepas itu, orang ramai yang berada di sisi sebelah kanan Gereja mula menjerit, “kalau Mansor masuk, bakar bangunan ini!†diikuti dengan di hadapan pintu masuk. Mereka menjerit menggunakan slogan agama dalam bahasa Arab. FRU telah mengawal situasi dan menyuruh orang ramai agar berada jauh dari kawasan Gereja.
Jalan di hadapan Gereja telah dipenuhi dengan van, kereta dan motosikal yang digunakan untuk meletakkan kenderaan, bukan kenderaan para umat tetapi para penunjuk perasaan. Mereka bukan sahaja dari kalangan lelaki, tetapi wanita, kanak-kanak dan juga bayi turut menyertainya. Sebenarnya, pada saat itu, upacara Sakramen Komuni Pertama sedang berlangsung untuk 98 umatnya dan ramai yang lain yang terdiri dari berbagai bangsa datang untuk menyaksikan dan merayakan upacara tersebut.
Barang kali SMS tersebut ditulis dalam beberapa petunjuk salah sa-tunya: Sejumlah Melayu akn dibaptiskan oleh Dato Azhar Mansor Ahad ini di Gereja Selibin Ipoh, seramai 600 plajar Poli teknik Ungku Omr Ipoh telah msuk Kristian baru2 ini. Pendedahan oleh Mufti Perak ptg ini di masjid Negeri. Sampaikan sms kpd org-2 yg mahukan ISLAM.
Tanpa menghiraukan bahaya yang akan mengancam sekeliling, para umat bergerak keluar dari kerumunan orang ramai (pada ketika itu kedua-dua penghujung jalan telah dihadang dan kereta tidak dibenarkan masuk di kawasan Gereja) dan membawa keluarga mereka untuk merayakan Misa pada pukul 9 pagi, misa yang dirayakan dalam tiga bahasa (Inggeris, Tamil dan Bahasa Malaysia). Keadaan di luar masih tegang. Tetapi para umat mengambil tempat duduk masing-masing dalam Gereja dengan cara yang teratur, tanpa mempedulikan apa yang telah berlaku disekeliling (walaupun ramai di antara mereka mempunyai pertanyaan yang tidak terjawab dalam minda atas apa yang telah berlaku!). Walau bagaimanapun, beberapa orang lelaki, kedua-dua muda dan tua ditempatkan disekeliling gereja, sebagai langkah memberi jaminan keselamatan dan keyakinan kepada mereka yang merayakan Misa.
Misa bermula tepat pada masanya, perarakan oleh 98 orang kanak-kanak yang berpakaian cantik dengan memakai pakaian putih seperti mailakat telah mendahului, diikuti oleh pelayan altar dan paderi. Dari dewan Gereja Lourdes ke pintu masuk Gereja, telah diperhatikan dan diawasi oleh saudara dan saudari kita yang berlainan kepercayaan diluar pintu masuk. Paderi paroki Fr Bernard Paul, dapat merasai ketakutan dan kebimbangan pada kanak-kanak, dan beliau terlebih dahulu telah bercakap dengan mereka dan meminta agar mereka bertenang.
Walau bagaimanapun, kebimbangan Fr Bernard masih nyata dalam nada suaranya ketika beliau memulakan misa. Misa yang berlangsung dalam tiga bahasa, disaksikan, didengar dan mungkin diperhatikan oleh semua komuniti didalam dan diluar Gereja, sistem bunyi diluar pintu boleh didengar oleh semua orang, iaitu tidak ada apa-apa yang disembunyikan dari Gereja tetapi segalanya adalah untuk dikongsi dan disaksi bersama! Seperti kebiasaanya para umat menghadiri Misa termasuk migran dari Afika dan Indonesia yang datang memenuhi ruang gereja (siapa yang mengetahui SMS tersebut di harap dapat bersaksi dengan Kristus — tanpa menghiraukan bahaya kepada mereka) dan tidak dilupakan saudara-saudari kita dari Malaysia Timur.
Mercun turut kedengaran dari luar Gereja ketika misa sedang berlangsung, tiada apa-apa hal yang berlaku, terima kasih atas kawalan ketat dan perhatian yang diberikan oleh ketua polis perak, pembantu OCPD Ipoh dan pasukan FRU serta pihak polis – undang-undang yang terbaik, Katolik dan bukan Katolik adalah sama.
Fr Dominic Santhiyagu, pembantu paderi paroki semasa membaca bacaan yang tertumpu kepada ‘Cinta kepada Tuhan dan Cinta kepada sesama’ adalah sangat sesuai. Dan mengajukan soalan kenapa ini terjadi kepada Gereja yang mengerti jelas tentang undang-undang negara berkaitan dengan penukaran agama. Beliau menambah, keadaan ini merupakan publisiti yang baik untuk kita tetapi sangat memalukan kepada mereka yang bertindak berdasarkan khabar angin.
Disamping itu, Fr Bernard merasakan para umat dapat memberi tumpuan yang baik. Kedua-dua penghujung jalan telah dihalang oleh para penunjuk perasaan dan dalam keadaan situasi yang tidak stabil, mereka hanya berkata, “Bagi jalan. Kita mahu pergi Gereja,†dan mereka berjalan menuju kepada kepercayaan mereka. “Tetapi terasa kebimbangan dalam hati saya… untuk keselamatan umat-umat saya… saya merasa bimbang bagaimana kalau mereka akan menyerbu,†tambah beliau.
Dalam catatan yang penuh erti, beliau menambah, “sedih sebab orang sangat mudah ditipu, terpengaruh dan bagaimana mereka terlalu cepat percaya terhadap pembohongan tanpa menyelidik terlebih dahulu sebelum mengambil sebarang tindakan. Tambahan pula, mereka telah menganggu perjalanan misa kita, ini adalah perayaan hari minggu kita! Ini sungguh tidak adil…menyinggung hak asasi manusia!â€
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some comments:
look at the picture on the left. (taken from the herald of the same issue, showing some of the girls queuing up to begin the first holy communion service). ain’t the little girls so cute and angelic? they are in their ‘first holy communion’ wear, which has to be all white, complete with veil. first holy communion is usually a memorable day but to think for these 100 children in the silibin, ipoh church, their memorable day had to be marred by hundreds of shameful idiotic protestors (include keadialan people!!) who gathered there based on a rumour. (like uncivilised people who can’t dialogue but ever ready for a fight).
since first holy communion is a memorable day, the parents of many of the children involved will take photos or video tape the event. well, someone did a video of the event indeed… and s/he had managed to catch the demonstrators in action and pictures showing the police and FRU. i had seen the video. it look frightening indeed, the mob raising their hands shouting and the many FRU personnel gathered outside the church. soon i will have this video up on the net and i hope everyone can spread it to show how childish and shameful those people had acted – based on a rumour. the leaders of these mob that gathered there should be charged!! i wonder why the PM, DPM and police only concentrate on the one who spread the sms! so angry lah!! grrrr!
and btw, what happened to releasing of the photo of the woman who started the sms? i bet there’s no woman… or if there is, she is only a scapegoat of the perak mufti. the perak mufti is the guilty one, the originator of the rumour!















November 20th, 2006 on 12:00 am
Aih…dunno what happening to malaysia la..btw this church is just bout 2 minutes from my house i was there for a while when this took place.
Hopefully Datuk Azhar’s answer to the rumors will solved htis particular problem
lucia: i guess you saw the truckloads of FRU trucks eh? i saw it on video and sometimes i swear it kind of resemble a war zone with so many FRU personnel assembling in front of the church and the so many police here and there.
November 21st, 2006 on 8:24 pm
This problem will never be solved as long as some ppl’s attitude towards religion is not that of a persuasion but a compulsion by politics. Anyway Azhar gave a strange tortuous denial when a simple no is expected.
lucia: so true. he said he did not renounced islam, but he also did not said that he is not a christian.
November 24th, 2006 on 8:28 pm
this muslim cant be changed ,they are wild donkeys -peace is bad word for them.we cant blame them ..their teaching and their holy book brought them such a way.War and killing people of other religion secure them a place in heaven
lucia: no comment.
November 26th, 2006 on 1:58 pm
Recipe for peace and religious tolerance is
Christian churches should not convert Muslims + Muslims should not gather at Christian places of worship.
Both religions are people of the book. Tolerance and patience needed by people on both sides.
November 26th, 2006 on 6:16 pm
don’t censor the posts if you want intelligent debate. people from all sides must have their views posted. Otherwise we end up with a one sided blog.
lucia: you mean don’t censor the comments.
as i respond to gopal, no i don’t censor comments (except abusive and vulgar comments). i have comments moderation on so that means anytime a new person made comments, she/he won’t get to see the comments immediatley after she/he post. must wait for me to release it (or not!) and if i’m away from the PC for days means for days your comments won’t be release (doesn’t mean i am censoring).
if i find out a commenter is a troll, i will censor her/his comments.Â
November 26th, 2006 on 10:44 pm
OTOH, there are truly unkempt trolls out there who simply cannot qualify from commenting in any civilized debate. Hard to find a blog these days where such maddening excesses don’t get plonked.
The late MGG Pillai tried it in SK forum and it pissed off many decent commentors when it became largely taken over by you-know-who.
lucia: yeah, and some came trolling in with different handles!!
November 27th, 2006 on 8:00 am
Christians especially catholics cause the problem. We go round evangelising and converting the Muslims. We should have more sense. We don’t like them to convert us, so we should leave muslims alone. Tolerance and respect to all religions. That’s what the constitution guarantees. Christians should follow the constitution first. But we behave in high and mighty way as if we are saints. And we blame the Muslims for everything they do to us. We say we are the minority religion. When they react against us we think it is unfair. But who started the problem in the first place?
lucia: i don’t know whether to get angry or laugh at this but then i checked myself… definetely i should laugh… because this comment doesn’t made sense…. like one of your previous one (but using other handles. i know you same person e.g. nutty professor, binasa) saying azhar mansor was the root cause of the demonstrators gathering in the ipoh church.
it’s either you
1. ignorant about the laws in malaysia. christians can go round evengelising muslim? wow! i didn’t know that. if i know i would do it. christians are not allowed to even touch the muslims as there is a provision in the constiution about prostylesing (oops.always dunno how to spell this word) to muslim, don’t you know that?
2. just trying to instigate the christians.
3. trying to provoke me.
4. trolling – write under different handles with unreasonable comments.Â
November 27th, 2006 on 2:39 pm
First it’s not Catholics who seems that strong on evangelism, rather it is Protestants who are much more so. But this is rather a secondary point
The Constitution says freedom of worship and where’s the freedom if one is unable to choose one’s Faith? To enter and to leave without rancourous death threats, ie. This is the main point. How can it be a one-way street and yet demand respect? There is no ethical foundation here. Dogmas don’t make up for such crass shortfalls.
When a party does not observe this, what true moral legitimacy has it got to actually speak of respect? When it presumes an overall supremacy over everything, it then has no further need to reason. The world is then made safe for all its tyranny in the name of worship.
Knowing it cannot stand on reason and universal ethics some people naturally deny any interfaith dialogue. They iow are resorting to their religo-political clout based on the presumption of supremacy. An obvious admission that “freedom” to them, is just another mealy-mouth mention.
I’m not a Christian but the nons don’t need apologists and obfuscators like Karem Armstrong, the American ex-nun. To be upset about evangelism basically indicates the weakness of one’s own root beliefs. The blame factor then kicks in. When enough zombies chorus that, it sounds almost morally legit.
Christians through Christ;s teachings have the wisdom to separate religious and secular matters. And that’s a repectable thing….and in the best interests of men. And Christians don’t fatwas, remember?
November 27th, 2006 on 3:57 pm
to wits0. good on the english. wish the bulk of the malaysian population understood all that.
But it was your Pope who quoted a 14th century dialogue equating Islam with evil and violence. The Pope is not protestant.
Minority religion should not teach the majority what to do! Consider yourself lucky you have churches, freedom of worship, priests and bishops who can wear their cassocks and walk in the street, receive medals like datuk and tan sri, which mind you they never refuse even though they shouldn’t be taking earthly honours and awards but looking for heavenly honour.
If you use bin and go to America, they check you for hours. So if Christian go to Iraq and behave like invaders why can’t they cut their heads off? Its the crusades all over again.
Popes used to be neutral. They are not anymore. Christians used to be models. They are not with all the scandals of gay priests in th anglician community and priest abusing parishoners and altar boys in the catholic faith. Is that a model of Christ? is that a model anyone wants to follow
November 27th, 2006 on 6:30 pm
Agree Catholic. That’s a good one! I see Lucia and her church authorities – priests, administrators were silent for many hours. They didn’t know how to respond! paedophile priests abusing parishoners, choir boys, choir members, altar boys that’s hard to beat. By comparison how many paedophile of homosexual imams are there? Hardly any because polygamy is allowed.
Clean up the shit in your church before commenting about others people’s religion. But your own house in order first.
lucia: tsk, tsk, so typical of a shit-stirrer. you try to stir the small shit of the church to cover the bigger shit of the other religion. how do you know the church authorities were silent? did you read all the catholic websites? the church bulletin? and do you know that this incident of paedophile priests only covers 0.001% of the priests population? so why blew it up? just because want to hentam and provoke.
who were the one who raised such a hue and cry, burning buildings and killing people because of some cartoons that displease them? who were the ones who killed an innocent nun because of what the pope said? when the movie ‘the da vinci code’ was released, do we see christians burning buildings, killing people and protesting? who were the one who complain about some fancyful design on an ice cream biscuits containing a cross symbol? the list can go on and on…. but i wouldn’t go on as it would be childish of me, but if you want to be childish and continue hitting the church, fine be my guest… only thing is i will ignore you.
btw, this made me go ROTFL so much:
“By comparison how many paedophile of homosexual imams are there? Hardly any because polygamy is allowed. “
oh and of course you agree with catholic since both of you (and lots others) are the same person from brunei.Â
November 27th, 2006 on 6:38 pm
The Pope being a qualified scholar quoted a known fact of history – that islam was spread by the sword. In Bolehland it may not have been but under the feudal system of that time, the authoritarian sultan converted and the ppl. has to follow without any choice.
If there had been no jihad, there would have been no crusades. Simple as that. But some revisionist spinners of history still try to pervert this simple fact. Among these are the loony leftist apologists in the west. Because of the defensive war of the crusades, western civilization could evolve and the concept of freedom got well seeded in the newworld. Who would have though that “communist” China could catch on to the idea of Democracy this fast – and to it’s own best interest
On the matter of the majority, minority jazz, the breakdown of religions is here:http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html.
33% versus 21% is hardly a minority. Not that numbers, per se, equates with greater veracity but only because the angle is mentioned.
Only a primitive outlook would allow a proper religion to go political and dictate beyond spiritual matters. Tyranny otoh is not the right of any religion. Tyranny is the hallmark of a cult. Dogmas and bigotry are not substitute for the Truth anymore than mountains are not pegging down the earth, nor does the sun sink into a muddy pond.
Freedom is a birthright of mankind ; it isn’t something one is beholden to anyone else for allowing that. Are you beholden to the next man because you can have the air to breathe?
All the vain elites does not represent the ordinary ppl. In any society they lead different sort of lives. In Bolehland, names and titles becomes important precisely because it is especially weak in the practising any solid egalitarian concept but one which is a noticeable hangover of the past feudal one.
The Arab conduct of war has always been known as historically barbaric. History don’t lie. Any well read person knows that except the indoctrinated ignoramus in denial.
Profiling used in America is a natural necessity after 9/11. It would be foolishly irresponsible not to do so. Expect Nancy Pelosi, e.g., to oppose that if she hasn’t long done so though.
Pakistan: Sexual Abuse in Madrassas : http://www.westernresistance.com/blog/archives/000146.html
Fatwas Authorizing Sexual Abuse Of Infants
http://tinyurl.com/v8vek
Haven’t heard of any Papal decree throughout history for such, ever! Haha.
And mufti’s Hilali’s famous , “Unveiled women are uncovered meat”. Official blessing for rape, no less. Very civilized indeed!
Not forgetting that in a free and open society, such abuses always get
tremendous publicity as compared with restrictive societies in the middle east or Pakiland, e.g.
(Too many instances and URLs relating to the matter to mention.)
The Pope needs not be neutral, if by “neutral”, he must pretend that the persecution of his flock worldwide should be ignored and even unmentioned.
November 28th, 2006 on 2:13 pm
you missed a recent article in international herald tribune about malaysia which says that malaysia are worried about christians converting them. It gave the names of malays who had converted and the court cases ongoing in the Malaysian courts…..
The moral degradation in the catholic church is tremendous. And the cover ups make the accusers look sinful! Wheras the priest committed the sins. Those are facts. Its not to hantam the church. The church cannot speak from a high moral levl on this.
Priest paedophile scandal is not small. Its not 0.001% of the priests population. You should read more. There are books written. One of them is called Papal Sin. And there are others. Read also the books by Father Professor Andrew Greeley. He is a priest and also well known US psycologist. Read widely, then comment in a dispassionate way. Jangan banyak emosi.
The scandal is very big in USA, England, Ireland, Austria and maybe bigger in India and Africa. In India and Africa there is less transparency so we don’t know the true extent. If you clean up the priests involec in the paedophilia scandal 30% of the priests will have to be dismissed. As there is already a shortageof priest in most regions this cannot be done. The church is silent in America to limit the legal damage and the payouts. If the accept the blame some diocese in America will be bankrupt. Also follow Reuters stories closely on the scandal. Reuters is quite neutral. I don’t think they want to hantam the church.
When few rapes are committed wah there is a website to highlight what happened in Pakistan! When there is a paedophilia scandal you ignored all the books and articles? Come on lets me fair.
There are Malaysians in Brunei because it is a better place that the corrupt homeland. In Malaysian the christians are part of the corruption.
November 28th, 2006 on 9:17 pm
its free speech lucia. try to read more and analyse critically. Try to analyse with an open and tolerant mind indpendent of your church if you can do that! It is a very refreshing thing not to believe the one sided story you get from Christian books, magazines and approved Catholic publications.
Even you are Christian not everything your religion does is right. Think about the crusades and the Spanish Inquistion. The conversion of Christians in Asia by the Spanish and Portuguese. It was by force. Not by conviction.
The Muslims believe that the crusades are on right now. The modern day equivalent. And the Christians are joining with the Jews to persecute the Muslims. They may be wrong. But many Muslims still believe that!
Not everything the christians do is right. The prophets cartoons were defamatory. The Muslims are right to make a big deal about this.
But the Christians made the same big deal when the movie – Da Vinci Code was released. Most christian countries had the film banned. What happened to free speech. Where is the freedom to watch what you please? Why not let people watch and make up their own mind? People are quite grown up. But your church in particular has a habit of treating people like kids and of preaching “down” to them. The paedophilia scandal showed clearly that your priests did not practice what they preached. If people preached and then practiced virtue that fine. BUt in your church there is a wide gap between the preaching and the practiced reality.
When Madonna started her recent concert coming down a cross many Christian thought it was in poor taste. So the Christians also make a big deal about very small things.
I am buddhist but I find what catholic says is right and very refreshing.
lucia: so the catholic from brunei is now a buddhist! and earlier she (faridah?) was a nutty professor and even some chinese and indian names.
ignore mode is on for this multiple personality person henceforth.Â
November 28th, 2006 on 9:33 pm
And hey I forgot to mention two things.
I admired your former Pope John Paul II. He was shot by a Muslim but he forgave the assassin and did not harbour hatred against other Muslims even though a Muslim had attempted to assassinate him.\
But he was also a Pope of deep contradiction. He put a paper in the Jewish wall praying for peace. But the Muslims understood it as a deeply pilitical message. He seemed to be abandoning the long time neutral stance of the Vatican against Muslims. He seemed to be suggesting Christians should combine against Jews to wack the Muslims. Otherwise why he put the prayer in the “Jewish” wall in the first place. I asked my friends is this a prayer for peace or is this a political gesture. Most felt it was a political gesture or a signal of some sort to fellow christians especially catholics to line up with the Jews. Most catholics traditionally hated Jews for:-
1. Killing Christ in the first place
2. Not believing that Jesus was the Messiah.
The current Pope sad to say he is a BIGOT. He comments about things he knows nothing about. He lack sensitivity like a typical Nazi German which he was! He knows about Christian theology but nothing else. He is not a pastoral fellow, neither a scholar of other religions, nor a diplomat by training. Growing up in a small German village, how many Muslim friends did he have? How many Muslim friends he played games with? Where there any Muslim houses he visited? Where was his nearest mosque. If he survives his visit to Turkey he will be a very lucky man!
November 28th, 2006 on 10:04 pm
witsO has the writing style of Bishop Anthony of penang. To say that the crusades were “defensive” wars is just plain wrong and a fraud. This is just rewriting of history. It is very crass. Next witsO will be describing black as white
November 29th, 2006 on 1:29 am
Unlikely “buddhist” is a buddhist at all. Not any more than the Dalai Lama is my Spiritual Leader. The later is smply a detrhroned Tibetan leader who has since been shored up certain “Progressives” group in the West. (Now he pays back by being overboardedly political correct as another mindless Peacenik).
“witsO will be describing black as white “. That’s what islamists do best in their inverted universe. That’s why the Pope is a bigot to him/her.
A real Buddhist would have known history as to how the Jihadist hordes destroyed the Buddhist civilization of India and central Asia.
This time around the Pope isn’t going to kiss the Koran nor apologise for the Crusades.
The islamists hates him also because they fear the strengthening of the Church if the Pope succeeds in healing the 1000+ years rift of the RCC with the Eastern Orthodox Church. Bullies always fear their intended victims uniting whereas it’s okay to unite amidst hubris and with bad intention. This is called “Projection” in Psychology.
It’s hard indeed to fake being a buddhist when one’s thinking betrays a steeply perverted view.
April 21st, 2009 on 3:52 am
Great man did a great job . Well done . I’m waiting your next post. I’ll share this with my friends.
December 12th, 2009 on 11:45 am
Kristian ajaran sesat.. dan bakal masuk neraka jahanam tunggu di akhirat nanti..wahai kristian insaflah jangan nak pandai murtadkan orang lain. kafir laknatullah.
December 12th, 2009 on 11:52 am
To Danny,
“this muslim cant be changed ,they are wild donkeys -peace is bad word for them.we cant blame them ..their teaching and their holy book brought them such a way.War and killing people of other religion secure them a place in heaven”
Danny komen awak diatas adalah melampau terhadap umat islam , pasal awak ni monyet kat hutan yang bertuhan kan syaitan…agama awak sesat wahai kafir..
December 14th, 2009 on 2:07 am
You simply gotta believe this!!!
Manohara must pay and be loyal to prince
http://freemalaysiatoday.com/english/?p=4178
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All sesat, except Anna.